[split] Quality vs Quanity - the state of expansion art

[Odin]

Split from spam thread after this post. Some of the longer posts would be downright brutal for phone based users to scroll past.

The community for this stuff was really big almost 10 years ago. Even by the time I got involved it wasn't what it used to be.

Chubbychannel was only made 5 years go because we all got tired of having to put up with the admins on a much older site that most of us first started talking to one another on.

And while we've held our ground here only having to tolerate the slow wearing away of time, the community we came from has fragmented or outright vanished entirely.

Most of the good artists either stopped producing entirely or have gone to a pay to view model that few people here can afford or are willing to support.

Artists that produce content of questionable legality or really poor quality are still around, but usually live only on deviantart and tubmlir without bothering to use forums anymore.

A big part of what made other sites like this thrive is the content threads, people contributing their collections and their works to the threads until a massive stockpile was built up.

These days that's what the chans are doing, everyone posting from their stash and saving what they like. So the only reason to come to a place like this is for the casual chat, as the chans do not really allow for predictable conversation or for people to get to know one another.

[Chaos]

(03-28-2015 10:21 AM)Ulfric Blackheart Wrote:  I....have a hard time arguing with that...It really does feel like the expansion community isn't really a community anymore.

The community thing may not be together as a whole, they're still tightly knit on their preferred sites, that's how everyone acts these days but I was talking about the fact no one wants better stuff and praises anyone that'll give them the time of day. We barely have anyone worth a shit now too.
Reminds me though, need to check 8Chans fatty boards.

[Aerial-Rave]

(03-28-2015 10:14 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 04:54 AM)kawaiiChiimera Wrote:  I wonder if I could coax is back to life over the course of a few weeks...
Hmmmm.

You won't, unless you turn this into a furry circle jerk by coaxing friends into joining.


Surprisingly what it was mostly like before...

(03-28-2015 05:12 AM)Ulfric Blackheart Wrote:  I would love to see this forum come back to life...

I'm indifferent. The current state of the expansion Chans and DA makes it feel like this whole fucking community is nothing but a bunch of cock sucking morons. Plus Alter is back last I checked, It would be best for him to be gone before any movement happened.

https://i.4cdn.org/v/1427413106574.webm

Movement, you say?



Not gonna lie, with some of the stuff I've seen lately, I am about ready for some dumb rotund revolution, it seems like the hip thing to do. (inb4 this is taken out of context and used against me)

But with the stuff Odin and Chaos have said, there is a drop in quality and communication among the lot who draw and even write fat art. Mostly cliques but out of survival more than exclusivity. We all grown apart for various reasons and can only survive THROUGH circle jerking and it hinders our talents as a whole.

Also with the pay walls, it is clear a lot of people want to turn fetish art into a business but don't have the stamina, social skills or even decency to keep it up. Mind you, most of these people can't even focus on personal projects and think they can handle producing constant content for a paying customer base? And here I though being too big for one's britches would be a good thing in the WG community~

(03-28-2015 11:14 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 10:21 AM)Ulfric Blackheart Wrote:  I....have a hard time arguing with that...It really does feel like the expansion community isn't really a community anymore.

The community thing may not be together as a whole, they're still tightly knit on their preferred sites, that's how everyone acts these days but I was talking about the fact no one wants better stuff and praises anyone that'll give them the time of day. We barely have anyone worth a shit now too.
Reminds me though, need to check 8Chans fatty boards.

Disclaimer: Chaos thinks Japanese artists are the best WG ones, despite the fact A LOT draw the same. Though he is not completely wrong, let's not remember that he is a bias weeaboo with decent taste.

[Marechal des logis Daedalus]

Many of the Japanese artists do have similar styles, but they do not disguise lack of skill and effort regarding human anatomy under stylization like many Western artists are prone towards. In a very stereotypically Japanese sort of way, these artists take everything to heart. I recall a few of them on Pixiv even taking hiatuses to attend art classes. Maybe it helps to live in a culture where obsessive traits and pouring passion into every detail are the norms. I do not know.

American artists, however, usually seem to follow the American motto: if you can half-ass it and get away with it, continue to half-ass it.

That is not to say all Western artists never place great effort into their art, but the artistic quality from The Land of the Rising Sun is consistently better. There are artists I like from both sides. Those Scandinavians never seem to disappoint either.

[Chaos]

(03-28-2015 01:05 PM)Aerial-Rave Wrote:  But with the stuff Odin and Chaos have said, there is a drop in quality and communication among the lot who draw and even write fat art. Mostly cliques but out of survival more than exclusivity. We all grown apart for various reasons and can only survive THROUGH circle jerking and it hinders our talents as a whole.

It has nothing to do with survival, it's all fear and complacency through and through.

(03-28-2015 01:05 PM)Aerial-Rave Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 11:14 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 10:21 AM)Ulfric Blackheart Wrote:  I....have a hard time arguing with that...It really does feel like the expansion community isn't really a community anymore.

The community thing may not be together as a whole, they're still tightly knit on their preferred sites, that's how everyone acts these days but I was talking about the fact no one wants better stuff and praises anyone that'll give them the time of day. We barely have anyone worth a shit now too.
Reminds me though, need to check 8Chans fatty boards.

Disclaimer: Chaos thinks Japanese artists are the best WG ones, despite the fact A LOT draw the same. Though he is not completely wrong, let's not remember that he is a bias weeaboo with decent taste.

[Aerial-Rave]

(03-28-2015 03:15 PM)Chaos Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 01:05 PM)Aerial-Rave Wrote:  But with the stuff Odin and Chaos have said, there is a drop in quality and communication among the lot who draw and even write fat art. Mostly cliques but out of survival more than exclusivity. We all grown apart for various reasons and can only survive THROUGH circle jerking and it hinders our talents as a whole.

It has nothing to do with survival, it's all fear and complacency through and through.

Except for the fact that instead of one elite clique, we have them at any tier, now? Hell, one of our own is even in a group of mid-tier peeps, so yeah, cliques in the name of survival are a thing. No one nowadays is going to give you the time of day unless you draw their wide waifu and even then, you may not get the criticism you want or need to improve.

Honestly, it is not just one reason but many why this community has gone to shit. Artist-Customer relations, people getting salty over not liking a drawing or an artist's style for a shallow reason, Customer's taking up multiple commission slots, artists taking on much more than they can do and so on.

(03-28-2015 01:05 PM)Aerial-Rave Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 11:14 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 10:21 AM)Ulfric Blackheart Wrote:  I....have a hard time arguing with that...It really does feel like the expansion community isn't really a community anymore.

The community thing may not be together as a whole, they're still tightly knit on their preferred sites, that's how everyone acts these days but I was talking about the fact no one wants better stuff and praises anyone that'll give them the time of day. We barely have anyone worth a shit now too.
Reminds me though, need to check 8Chans fatty boards.

Disclaimer: Chaos thinks Japanese artists are the best WG ones, despite the fact A LOT draw the same. Though he is not completely wrong, let's not remember that he is a bias weeaboo with decent taste.

[/quote]



You're such a big baby sometimes. It was a joke and one with some truth in it. As Dae has said and I believe he is right, eastern and European artists to take their craft more seriously but let's not forget that styles like Crayon Shin-Chan are among some of those styles in the east. I still think there is a bias toward Japanese fatty art. Heck, you can clearly see some artist here in the west intimate it in their style.

Personally, while I will not argue western is any better or worse, there are clear examples of our boys being less than stellar in the art department and there is no argument. But also factor in, some artists and their supporters are not all right in the head and tend to be the loudest voices among us, so there's your push for crap pictures. It is our hand holding tendency that gets this stuff in because we don't want to shy anyone away with potential. You can argue whether or not if this is a good or bad thing, both have their pros and cons.

Personally, I am a little bit of Column A and B because subjectivity is a big factor in the entire debate but at the same time I am not afraid of telling some one to 'Git Gud.'

[Chaos]

(03-28-2015 09:24 PM)Aerial-Rave Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 03:15 PM)Chaos Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 01:05 PM)Aerial-Rave Wrote:  But with the stuff Odin and Chaos have said, there is a drop in quality and communication among the lot who draw and even write fat art. Mostly cliques but out of survival more than exclusivity. We all grown apart for various reasons and can only survive THROUGH circle jerking and it hinders our talents as a whole.

It has nothing to do with survival, it's all fear and complacency through and through.

Except for the fact that instead of one elite clique, we have them at any tier, now? Hell, one of our own is even in a group of mid-tier peeps, so yeah, cliques in the name of survival are a thing. No one nowadays is going to give you the time of day unless you draw their wide waifu and even then, you may not get the criticism you want or need to improve.

Honestly, it is not just one reason but many why this community has gone to shit. Artist-Customer relations, people getting salty over not liking a drawing or an artist's style for a shallow reason, Customer's taking up multiple commission slots, artists taking on much more than they can do and so on.

Ah, thought you meant an artist and its followers but the point still stands since I've never actually seen anyone give any criticism even though they post a comment towards the picture.

Dude, a style shouldn't be going too far, the main point of this stuff is to be visually appealing unless you go for something entertaining which none of them do cept for like one person. Don't go for some artistic whoha if you're making shit for this community to monopolize on their sexual interests. It's stupid assholes like Bedbenders and her weak ass line work, that one artist and her huge ass witch schnauz, those who can't keep proportions worth a damn so it ends up looking like some kind of boneless monstrosity from a reality where humans evolved from slugs, the ones who have been around for a long time and still can't be bothered getting better, or all those new bastards who show no signs of ever getting better and keep on with drawing barely higher than rookie level. If you can't make an appealing face and/or body or isn't actively working towards it, you're shit, you have no style, you're just a lazy bastard, you have no skill, stop trying to make people think you can draw any better than exaggerated piss.

(03-28-2015 09:24 PM)Aerial-Rave Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 01:05 PM)Aerial-Rave Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 11:14 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 10:21 AM)Ulfric Blackheart Wrote:  I....have a hard time arguing with that...It really does feel like the expansion community isn't really a community anymore.

The community thing may not be together as a whole, they're still tightly knit on their preferred sites, that's how everyone acts these days but I was talking about the fact no one wants better stuff and praises anyone that'll give them the time of day. We barely have anyone worth a shit now too.
Reminds me though, need to check 8Chans fatty boards.

Disclaimer: Chaos thinks Japanese artists are the best WG ones, despite the fact A LOT draw the same. Though he is not completely wrong, let's not remember that he is a bias weeaboo with decent taste.

You're such a big baby sometimes. It was a joke and one with some truth in it. As Dae has said and I believe he is right, eastern and European artists to take their craft more seriously but let's not forget that styles like Crayon Shin-Chan are among some of those styles in the east. I still think there is a bias toward Japanese fatty art. Heck, you can clearly see some artist here in the west intimate it in their style.

Personally, while I will not argue western is any better or worse, there are clear examples of our boys being less than stellar in the art department and there is no argument. But also factor in, some artists and their supporters are not all right in the head and tend to be the loudest voices among us, so there's your push for crap pictures. It is our hand holding tendency that gets this stuff in because we don't want to shy anyone away with potential. You can argue whether or not if this is a good or bad thing, both have their pros and cons.

Personally, I am a little bit of Column A and B because subjectivity is a big factor in the entire debate but at the same time I am not afraid of telling some one to 'Git Gud.'
[/quote]

...Are replying to other posts bugged now?

A baby about what, it's a crappy as joke that only made you laugh and what truth? There's only one Japanese fatty artist I like that's still active, only anime I've bothered watching in months if not years was the original Sailor Moon series since my library got the first season and I remember it from my childhood, I read like one manga vol a year, I like Dragon Quest and hate Persona, what's so "some truth" about it?

And Crayon Shin-Chan is an anime aimed at children that was made for entertainment, not for physical attraction.

Still can't proof read your stuff...and they do it because they like the more cutesy exaggerated features.

People are louder than you and fucking everything up? Fucking fight them off instead of taking it in the ass, oh wait, that'd be problematic since you're one of them yourself.

I don't care if you give them a year or two to work and show some improvement but any longer and they're still not showing shit, don't fucking defend them like they're potential greatness.

Yeah, you'd totally not the type to praise the likes of Robot001, Zelda308, TheJiggly, Dragon-Storm, Moutain Chubby, Owlizard, NewStuff4U, Danyantto, AkaFa, Shinderafeh, AntiOxidated (such a waste of money and to abuse your OCs face in such a way? For shame), Debulover, Bedbenders, Saxxon, and from the looks of it, Grim Kun and his weird shaped inflation looking style. You'd surely tell them the areas you see they should work on, you'd never just fav it and give the ol criticismless post.



Get fucked you tasteless little dick licking sack of shit.
Talkin' bout not bein' afraid of "telling someone to 'git gud'", HAH, come back when you're not double digit ass kissing.

[Aerial-Rave]

Oh no, you got me, whatever shall I do...



First off, the fact that you seem to be getting a bit worked up over a simple jab at a small trait/tendency you have is laughable within itself. I was just teasing you man, you of all people I would expect to realize how weak it was.

Second, don't act like you or anyone on chans boards truly have a grasp on what is 'quality' when it comes to art. Because like I said, it is subjective at most and the fact that people do come back to these people does show their style is somewhat appealing. This community is shallow as hell and would ignore anyone on the tiniest thing.

If anything, critics like you, especially people like you Chaos, don't even have a standard in what they like and just like to bitch because that's all you can do. If you truly wanted better art, you'd do it your damn self instead of sitting on your imaginary throne of superiority like anything you made would have been immortalized in the annuls of time. If anything, what I love about you and people like you, is that you will praise this imaginary standard of 'fetish perfect' and compare the vague concept of your non-existent masterpiece and say that no artist, no matter what they do, they will never reach this standard.

Now, I am all for criticism and will argue some people take it too personally. But at a point, 'Git Gud' without telling the person how to do so is straight up harmful and a waste of time. It is half the reason these artists are stagnant and closing their doors because you keep pushing this imaginary standard. For me, as long as you are not like Butlova tier or something that resembles a five year old's refrigerator drawing, then I pretty much have no trouble with the way they draw. Heck, I will admit my taste in styles is broad and may not be liked by other but shit, I can't just as easily not like your tastes.

Another thing is you are confusing defending support with defending. Of all the artists you listed, I support them in the hopes of them improving. Does Owl always produce quality WG work? No, he tends to do more hourglass, a shape I am personally not fond of, but of all his monster and male commissions he has done for me, those are some of my favorites. I really don't mind that the dude isn't perfect but he does practice sketches and does it anytime he can.

People fucking up and being louder than others (including me for your argument's sake) is again you confusing support with defending. Again with Owlizard, I started to be more specific with what I ask him in terms of commissions as I noticed a lot of artists do interpret body types of the picture references I give them differently. But at the same time, I also give him some room to do what he feels best because I'm not a nitpicking asshole who believes in absolute perfection. Some people can and will make mistakes, including me.

And yes, I make A LOT of typos in my writing but since have shown people my stuff before I post it and even they can miss stuff. I really think you have a problem putting everything to a perfect standard that doesn't exist.

But the main thing I want to touch on in your argument is that you say there is one artist that fits your criteria for good. Now let's say that's the standard you want everyone else to have. What if someone like me or even TAD hates that person's style and considers it flawed. Then what? Your gold standard is debunked due to subjective eyes because not everyone thinks/sees the same thing.

Now the people I 'praise.' I'd do a complete list of why I like these artists and what they can improve, but you'd just dismiss it because it doens't fit your fake gold standard. But what I can say about these people (Even Robot001) is that they have the courage to actually put their shit out there to be publicly criticized. Now, does this mean they are immune from being told that they are bad? No, there are plenty of shit I hate that people love and I wouldn't be anymore of a jackass than you are for trying to make everyone agree to my standard and isolate people's works that I don't like.

You seem to forget that the community IS big enough to house a variety of tastes, styles and subjects. The problem with the WG community is that people like you and TAD try to minimize the choice, either through exclusivity or just driving out things that you don't like. What you two jackasses seem to forget, is the fact that simply ignoring this shit will have a better chance of it dying out. If it gets to the higher calibers and is criticized by the public and doesn't fit the majority standard rather than those of the minority, then it will die out, simple as that. Riding the hate-boner s only going to make the damn abomination grow and separating yourself when you can stop it yourself is the best option.

But who am I to disagree with master artist Chaos-Ace? I'm just a tasteless pleb who is the cowboybefat with OCs? I swear, every time I try to be decent with you, you turn into a blithering idiot who thinks his shit doesn't stink. You cry and whine and leave, only to come back because you really have no other place to go, nor other people who would read/listen/put up with your bullshit.

Face it Chaos, you like us and the artist on the west side. You have every right to want the art to improve, but people have to improve at their own pace and have lives outside this shit so they might not Git Gud as quickly as you want them to be.

TL;DR Get fucked boi.

[Odin]

That's one heck of a post. It took me a couple tries to focus on it long enough to finish it.

Its exactly what has happened here though. The formerly large community of expansion has divided itself over time into a scattered array of microcommunities each clustered around a particular subset of what kinds of material there is out there.

Like Chubbychannel's own birth as we threw off the yoke of morbidly obese lolis in favor of plump mature young women who are of suitable age and excellent body condition for our interests. And the subsequent division of the fat furs from the normal FAs, which took away a large part of our community that we might never be able to recover.

I'm pretty tolerant about this stuff, and even if it doesn't interest me other people might like it and want it, so if it isn't illegal or unethical like fat lolis its totally okay to have by my standards.

And I'd rather have people together even if we don't all agree on what makes a figure hot.

[neo_ozon]

I agree with all expressed sentiments. Forums are sort of becoming a bit passe' and are largely being replaced by sites like reddit, tumblr, and various chan boards which have previously been discussed.

I don't think it's going to get better or any worse really, we'll be here for the people that want to stay and enjoy our company. But I will say that it has been brought up by Skipper in the past that early on it was hard for her to find her place due to how much of an "all-inclusive club" this place felt like (not trying to throw her under the bus, just agreeing with the point she made)

There's also egos at work, I don't think I need to say anything more. We were here, we all know what transpired

To summarize: Let's be happy with what we have, the times we've shared, the friends or lack thereof we've made, and try not to fret about whether or not we have a gross influx of members like we used to almost a decade ago on a site that shan't be named