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Chaos · (This post was last modified: 04-01-2015 11:33 AM by Chaos.)

(03-31-2015 01:22 AM)Aerial-Rave Wrote:
(03-30-2015 11:27 AM)Chaos Wrote:
(03-29-2015 10:46 PM)Aerial-Rave Wrote:
(03-29-2015 06:57 PM)Chaos Wrote: You can't be a Cowboybefat without repeatedly buying from the same artist while refusing to challenge them at least every now and then. And yet the only time I left, I got asked back. I haven't been posting here since it's been pretty dead. That just shows how little you know of the web.

You left at least twice and both was because you felt people weren't listening to you and were doing their own thing which you considered stupid. Trust me, I know more than I let on.

Wait, when was this second time I left and how was my leaving because of a highly volatile situation where both sides were really getting on each others nerves "because you felt people weren't listening to you and were doing their own thing"?

I remember the first you left was around the time we were planning on doing something to get the site more attention. People like you and Apelord suggested we couldn't do it for various reasons, gave vague explanations as to why (Such as simply not liking the designs of the mascots, cast, story and what not and provided next to no solutions for it. ) I remember specifically you not taking too well to the fact that you suggested we do more fan-art type stuff with stories and pictures to first attract people and a lot of us (more than likely me as well) told you no, original shit only and you responded with no one would care about our own original content.

Though true, it was felt we had higher aspirations for our own creations and it got to our heads and basically told you to fuck off and that it was going to work.

The second time was more due to that time we completely lost the forum due to something on Odin's end and I believe you stuck to the IRC.

If I am wrong in anything of these things, feel free to correct me.

1) That wasn't me permanently leaving, that was me going elsewhere til the shit blew over since I didn't care for any of it and the fact it was everywhere.
2)I said you guys weren't gonna finish that shit, you were all incapable of keeping a good steam going, and as I predicted, that shit fizzled out. Because no one would, just look at TV, whenever a new channel's made, they have a shit ton of old shows airing before filtering in their own stuff. I wasn't irritated because you guys were making a ton of OCs instead of copyright, I was irritated because you guys refused to believe that shit like that wouldn't work.
3) That other time is wrong, but I really did leave. Combination of Alt dick sucking and everyone not shutting up about repeatedly trying to get Shippo on even though he obviously didn't want to so I said something down the lines of "if he doesn't wanna join then fuck him, stop trying to force the guy" then everyone said "no fuck you" and since everyone was pissed over that shit, I decided to leave, then months later Odin asked me to come back.

As much as you guys say you wanna help the site, not one of you ever took me up on my offer of learning how to scrounge through Pixiv but nooooooooo, even though it'd be at most 4 mins of your time and that's likely me blowing the time out of proportion since it's balls easy to figure out cept for noticing little subtleties from seeing them over and over in different tags.

(03-31-2015 03:27 AM)Rakko Wrote: It makes me laugh when people bitch about artists expecting to get paid for their work. As if somehow the community is owed free art because they want it. DA was a website designed for artists to share their personal works, to find inspiration and constructive criticism between one another, and to grow as artists. It was never designed to be, nor will it ever be, your free fap image farm. Pay for your porn like a normal member of society, or pirate it like an asshole. Either way, quit your bitching. As it turns out, the internet didn't in fact make everything free. Porn costs money, it always has.

That being said, on the flipside, these artists have no idea how to charge for what they're selling. Supply and demand seems a foreign subject to them. Go to any retailer and find me a comic that's charging 10 dollars for 5 images, let alone 5 pages. You can't, it doesn't exist, because art isn't worth that much on retail.

Commissions cost more because they're custom work, custom work is inherently more time consuming because it involves catering to a single individual or group of individual's needs, the required back and forth, and research/repetition to get exactly what the client wants out of it. With these art packs, they're just drawing whatever they want, that involves considerably less work.

Does that mean you have a right to bitch about artists expecting money? No. If you don't wanna pay them, don't. There's ways to pirate it. They'll drop their prices in accordance if they need to. Supply and demand wins out in the end. Look at Jollyjack, he charges 3 bucks for 10+ page porn comics and manages to make a decent buck off of it, because its a reasonable price. Its simpler to just buy it from his website than it is to go track it down somewhere off a pirate site for most people. This is also how steam managed to carve itself out a decent niche. Easy accessibility and reasonable prices >>> Loads of effort in pirating. Simple economics.

These communities fell apart for the same reason most forum based communities fell apart. Web 2.0. Social media, dissemination of close knit groups into mass social landscapes, its the progression of things. Tribes become city states, city states become nations. Yearning for the old tribal lifestyle is nice, and quite frankly, I also miss it, but I'm not going to pretend its anything but the natural progression of mankind. It sucks, but that's how it goes.

As for toxicity, the internet was always toxic, it just seems moreso now because things exist on more of a mass scale than they did before. People have a tendency to be borderline-sociopathic assholes when consequences are removed. Look at half the posts on this thread, they're bathed in the kind of vitriol that would likely get you decked in the face in reality. But you don't have to be afraid of a fist on a computer monitor. People are people.

I'll keep drawing fat art for furries and making a decent cash flow out of it either way. Its funny, I don't see any of this bitching in the furry community at all. It really says all that need be said when I actually see furries being more reasonable than regular folks about something like this. I suggest you guys check your entitlement. We are artists, not livestock.

I agree with all that top part about there needing to be a better content to price ratio. I don't agree with the anti bitching part, as annoying as it may be, it still helps get out the word that the content may not be worth your money and with what is said, you can decide if you wanna go buy it yourself since there's no place to speak your mind about such things. I honestly can't think of anyone who even does a good grasp with it beyond Saxxon and maybe TrinitiyFate, never really saw his packs.

Fuck that entitlement bullshit, I heard that word entirely too much when I started reading all the Gamergate stuff and the repeated times on the expansion chans. If Axel and Serio hadn't poisoned the idea before everyone tried it themselves, there likely wouldn't be as much bitching about it and now mostly everyone else is helping support peoples opinions that this is a bad idea by having too little content in their packs, worse quality than everything in their gallery. They're your loyal customers not your piggy bank to bang every which way to get its money out.

For the most part people never had an issue with commissions and also from what I've seen, it's rare for furries to do art packs and when they do, it's rare for them to skimp on the content.

(03-31-2015 05:22 AM)Aerial-Rave Wrote: I actually made a post on my Tumblr as to why I think art packs in their current state are shit. It seemed like a good idea but like you said Rakko, the prices don't match the quantity of the pics and I even made a reference to how DC and Marvel sell their comics for like 7 bucks an issue. Of course, I was met with some denial and excuses and even the fact that apparently artists who do art packs and Paetron won't be effected by the commissions they haven't done previously. (Basically, with the art packs and paetron, commission time won't be hindered which is bollocks considering artists have a tendency to not even finish personal projects and expect people to pay them to finish their personal shit.)

And no, all communities have their issues and just because the furry community doesn't have the art pack issue doesn't mean it is flawless. I swear, this furries vs human fat debate is as stupid as consoles wars. I always thought it was just light hazing in the name of some laughs but it seems people take this to heart...

And no, the internet hasn't always been 'toxic' but your mention of no consequences is sounds. People do talk more shit behind a computer screen and feel more power because of it. But at the same time, the internet is generally a place of no rules so you can have someone give you 100 bucks for no God damn reason or send you literal dog shit on your doorstep, it's a gamble. Most of the people that complain that their are being treated unfairly are just spoiled brats who can't use their advantages over the net thanks to the anonymity of the net.

Again, simply put, my main argument for the WG community is to stop treating art and each other like Gods/Celebrities we need to jump through hoops to talk to. Commissions need to be handled more professionally and with more communication between both parties as both have their faults when it comes to transactions and conveying what the customer wants. However, for some reason there is this social wall everyone must climb to even get some decency their way.

Big two sell their comics for $4-5 while vols cost 15-20, mangas seem to be around 10 bucks.

Oh shit, I just remembered, that first time I left was to show you that I'm not the root of your constant failures, I left so you wouldn't be able to blame it dying because of me.

Really? All I've ever seen is people being disgusted by furry since it isn't their thing and wanting it taken off the board.